Curse

Terra Xin · Jun 26, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

concerning your reasoning for more kurzicks:
1. no - the players playing the kurzick side at Aspy mostly suck and that is why you get the impression that they are better at even playing fields. the kurzick aspy players mostly don't understand what they are doing there so when they move to JQ with its simple rules they do better then at Aspy but kinda on the same level as the luxons. and then theres is the exploit which just means that out of two dumb sides - the one which uses the exploit has a better chance!
UNLESS of course you tried to say that "even playing field" means "dumb on both sides"!

3. Aspy is closer FOR kurzicks then JQ but JQ is MUCH closer then Aspy for the luxons. so your reasoning no. 3 is just wrong.

1. True, but you're basing that argument on a specific handful of Kurzick players, ignoring the other Kurzick players that know how to play on that map. Furthermore, there is a higher difficulty in playing the Kurzick side than it would be on the Luxons. So it doesn't matter if some Kurzicks suck when playing FA, any Luxons who play on the Kurzick side would equally suck. No offense. I'm exaggerating when I say that Kurzicks are better at JQ, but I've played that map with every chance I get, on both sides, and I hardly lose.

3. That's based on the assumption that every human Luxon player starts in Cavalon... FA is and has always been the first stop for Luxons, while JQ being the second stop. The first few days of Faction's release made the biggest impact, because as soon as people settled in FA, then everyone wanted to go there. JQ's highest popularity was during the preview event, because the players skipped from the Market place, straight over to the major cities on both sides. Distance didn't become a problem then.

I just want more people to play JQ, it really is a fun map. ^^

Servant of Kali · Jun 26, 2007, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

Personally, I think that ABs are better designed maps than FA.

Depends how you define better designed. AB's have potential for organized play? Uh, who cares when there is no organized play and it's random? And a *potential* for organized play doesn't make AB more fun (even though this is subjective of course). Look at HA. RA is 5x more interesting and fun than HA!

Im sorry, i played ABs. Im ok with people liking it. But the best strategy in AB has been ... run, kill NPCs, run, kill NPCs, keep running in circles like that whole match killing NPCs and a few players along the way... and after i win several matches like that i had enough of AB for a whole year.

Is that better designed map? Not according to me. Fort Aspenwood has 10x more strategy and tactics than AB, not to mention variety.

Quote:

FA is only balanced because of the random nature and swarms of bad players playing it.

Im tired of this elitist attitude regarding FA. Does everyone need to be top GvG player in order to get some respect? Yeah, i don't like seeing horrible builds etc either, but the quality of players in FA (at least on Kurzick side where i mostly play) is better than in AB.

Quote:

FA by its nature is also almost impossible to balance correctly due to both sides having completely different set-ups and objectives.

That's not an argument for impossibility of balance. I think the balance is just fine, perhaps AI bugs should be fixed, but the balance is OK.

That guy in the later post made a nice comparison with Counterstrike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

The first few days of Faction's release made the biggest impact, because as soon as people settled in FA, then everyone wanted to go there.

You have no idea what you're talking about! This is such a silly argument that i don't even feel like wasting time on it. You're saying that just because someone got somewhere first, he will dismiss the rest of game content!

According to your logic, no one would even RA, we would still be having our lvl8 characters in Ascalon Arena, and when they turn lvl11, we would start a new one.

Fort Aspenwood is played because it's a great map. Jade Quarry is NOT. And Jade Quarry (unlike glitches in FA) has a critical bug which gives a huge advantage for Kurzicks. Along with other issues, no, i dunnot wanna play JQ over FA, not at this point.

Hyper.nl · Jun 26, 2007, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I tried again yesterday. At a certain time there were 8 Kurzicks, but still no Luxons. It's still a pain in the --- to get in. I did not have much time so I moved on to Aspenwood and Alliance Battle.

Qual · Jun 26, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

I have never tried it, which dis do you enter from ?

Terra Xin · Jun 26, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

You have no idea what you're talking about! This is such a silly argument that i don't even feel like wasting time on it. You're saying that just because someone got somewhere first, he will dismiss the rest of game content!

Jade Quarry is NOT the rest of the game content! And I did not say that just because a person goes to FA first, that they absolutely refuse (or are preventing) themselves from progressing through the rest of the game. I said, and I will make sure that you read my post CAREFULLY:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

The first few days of Faction's release made the biggest impact, because as soon as people settled in FA, then everyone wanted to go there.

JQ had lots more people during the preview event because it was easier to get to than it is now. Why did you not quote me and try to argue me on that? Because it was TRUE! Same thing applies here. Both competitive missions have their benefits, but why waste time learning how to faction farm two areas, when the focus is only faction farming? It's really not difficult to get a match started in JQ, you just advertise on both sides of FA to go over to JQ, and you're guaranteed a match. It works when I do it, anyway.

Quote:

According to your logic, no one would even RA, we would still be having our lvl8 characters in Ascalon Arena, and when they turn lvl11, we would start a new one.

You're using my logic incorrectly. And there are flaws in your comparisons. First off, you are not talking about JQ. You are also making the assumption that everyone who PvP's starts off in Ascalon Arena. Finally, hardly anyone goes to Ascalon Arena, and everyone goes to RA, which is in complete reversal to the logic (of mine) that you are trying to twist... it doesn't even reflect my main point about first arrival.

I probably just missed your point.

Quote:

Fort Aspenwood is played because it's a great map. Jade Quarry is NOT. And Jade Quarry (unlike glitches in FA) has a critical bug which gives a huge advantage for Kurzicks. Along with other issues, no, i dunnot wanna play JQ over FA, not at this point.

FA is a great map. JQ is a great map. FA is NOT played solely because it is a great map. At the beginning, the amount of glitches that FA and JQ had were equally bad, but because more people focused attention to FA (more people played that map, of course) then the glitches that were originally on that map had been fixed... well, at least that's what they say. Luxon Warriors can still get stuck, and the Gate Keepers still over extend from their bases.

Oh wait, we're overlooking FA's critical and exploitable glitches, right?

The critical bug in JQ occurred on both parties, and was lately fixed so that Luxons were no longer able to teleport out of their base.

A reminder. If you are going to respond to this, take a look at my original post on the first page, and have a look at two other points that I've made and see whether or not you have anything to say about them. I appreciate any feedback. ^^

Servant of Kali · Jun 26, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

JQ had lots more people during the preview event because it was easier to get to than it is now. Why did you not quote me and try to argue me on that? Because it was TRUE!

Nonsense. That's why i didn't quite you on that. In preview event your time is limited and you just want to fight and fight fast. It shows absolutely nothing now, especially when with PvP character you can reach both areas equally fast.

Quote:

FA is a great map. JQ is a great map. FA is NOT played solely because it is a great map. At the beginning, the amount of glitches that FA and JQ had were equally bad, but because more people focused attention to FA (more people played that map, of course) then the glitches that were originally on that map had been fixed...

That's another nonsense. More glitches fixed in FA? Oh yea, Turtles get much stuck less, and Luxon Warrior get stuck on a regular basis. Other NPCs still have problems.

Aside of AI stuff, NO GLITCHES WERE FIXED IN FA! Would you mind reminding me what glitch was there, because i don't remember any. On the other hand JQ had and STILL HAS a critical bug/exploit which enables Kurzick (and before both parties i think) a serious advantage. There is no such thing in Fort Aspenwood. The problem with Fort Aspenwood might be that Kurzicks r more difficult to play and get less faction than Luxons, but that encourages people to take challenge. Bugs and exploits dunnot.

And lastly, FA is more interesting map than JQ, but JQ gives much more Faction IIRC. If both gave NO faction at all, and had no glitches, guess which one would be played more.

Quote:

Oh wait, we're overlooking FA's critical and exploitable glitches, right?

Exactly. Imperfect AI is 20x better than an obvious bug/exploit. Imperfect AI is annoying when it happens. A bug simply makes people not play.

Quote:

A reminder. If you are going to respond to this, take a look at my original post on the first page

I've no intentions of doing so. If you dont understand that FA is a better designed map without teleport bug, and more interesting map (siege etc), and a map where you can do more stuff and more viable strategies, then i have nothing to add.

Lastly, there is a reason why people play FA so much. If ANet gave FA equal rewards to AB, im afraid tons of people would switch to FA instead. That's why FA always had lower faction.

Terra Xin · Jun 27, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

um... wow. I don't think either of us are going to find a resolve. We're both on two different sides of the spectrum here, using arguments that are based on observation. I'd like to think that I have better observation skills than you do, but I don't think that's our problem.

Quote:

Exactly. Imperfect AI is 20x better than an obvious bug/exploit. Imperfect AI is annoying when it happens. A bug simply makes people not play.

The bug in JQ doesn't even guarantee the Kurzicks (and previously Luxons) a win, it just gives them a head start. It isn't even that much of an advantage either. With FA, a single warrior out of the picture can stop reinforcements arriving for the entire match. I don't see how that's 20 times better, and I don't see how imperfect-AI is NOT considered a bug, because if something isn't working as it is supposed to be intended, then its bugged. Apparently we're having a new and completely separate definition when we're talking about FA...

Quote:

And lastly, FA is more interesting map than JQ, but JQ gives much more Faction IIRC. If both gave NO faction at all, and had no glitches, guess which one would be played more.

FA. And you've ignored my point completely.

Quote:

If you dont understand that FA is a better designed map without teleport bug, and more interesting map (siege etc), and a map where you can do more stuff and more viable strategies, then i have nothing to add.

So FA is a better map because it doesn't have bugs? Please. People should stop playing Guild Wars, with the amount of bugs this game has had. I could give a random example of a bug that occurred before... like when Deadly Haste was bugged, and suddenly every elementalist spamming Ice Spear flooded RA.

Did people stop playing RA then? (Let's not even go into HA, but people still played in those maps)

It's not because of a bug that caused people to stop playing JQ. But according to you, it's either that, or out of all of the matches that I've played, the game must have been killing them... Or I had Local Chat off the whole time. I don't really remember people complaining about the design of JQ, not once.

FA is played because everyone knows how to play FA. No point in you complaining about JQ if you don't even know how to play that map. Sorry.

Spazzer · Jun 27, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

The bug in JQ doesn't even guarantee the Kurzicks a win, it just gives them a head start.

I loled, because the terrible faction rewards for losers causes the Luxons to quit at this point because the game was decided before it started.

Yes, the glitch does guarantee a win. Stop playing on maps that give one side an advantage, and the problem is fixed. All those dozens of kurzicks in the JQ outpost can rot.

FA suffers from the same thing, though. All you have to do as a Kurz is kill the turtles when they get inside of the inner gates and the Luxon Warriors run straight for the nearest wall. A bonder on the gate and intense pressure on incoming players, and you won't have any problems.

The best thing you can do as a Luxon if you want faction is to AB when your side has advantage, or pve. JQ doesn't even come close on the list of priorities.

vergerefosh · Jun 27, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Was very popular during the double faction weekend aaages ago, not the more recent one for + faction when winning in AB. More double faction weekends!

Servant of Kali · Jun 27, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

FA suffers from the same thing, though. All you have to do as a Kurz is kill the turtles when they get inside of the inner gates and the Luxon Warriors run straight for the nearest wall. A bonder on the gate and intense pressure on incoming players, and you won't have any problems.

If you're a Luxon and know how to play the game, you will PLOW through Kurzick lines, bonder or not.

What are these jokes, really? Luxons are favored in FA a lot and kurzicks in JQ due to bug.

ponk · Jun 27, 2007, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

I loled, because the terrible faction rewards for losers causes the Luxons to quit at this point because the game was decided before it started.

Yes, the glitch does guarantee a win. Stop playing on maps that give one side an advantage, and the problem is fixed. All those dozens of kurzicks in the JQ outpost can rot.

/agree

that exactly why I don't play at JQ anymore.

Terra Xin · Jun 29, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

The bug is fixed. I'm telling you, the problem isn't that, people don't know how to play the map. I just got one started half an hour ago, and the luxons lost because they didn't know what to do.

Gaile Gray · Jun 29, 2007, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

When i first made this post, people weren't using the exploit (in the games i played anyways). But when I went back to play today, every single match some bright kurzick player would opt to take the easy way and attack the guards before the countdown finished. I eventually convinced one of them that it was unfair, but that will do little to stop the tide of abuse.

Please a-net, fix the bug where Kurzicks can attack the luxon guard post BEFORE the match starts. I ask this as a kurzick alligned player myself. It would be nice to know we beat them fair and square, rather than constantly abusing some bug. Not only that, if the Luxons are overly discouraged from playing than the map will once again fall into disuse. When we play fair, it's a close match, and that's good for everyone. When the Luxons can only manage to pull in two jade slabs - that's hardly worth their time faction wise, and they WILL stop playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

Very fun but the kurzick exploit kind of ruins it- for both sides. Long waits for the Kurz and imbalance against the lux.

I wanted to be sure to mention that the exploit has been closed, as of today's update. Thanks to everyone for your patience as we resolved that issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

The bug is fixed. I'm telling you, the problem isn't that, people don't know how to play the map. I just got one started half an hour ago, and the luxons lost because they didn't know what to do.

Well, that happens, sometimes. With another match, the experience may be altogether different.

countesscorpula · Jun 29, 2007, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I wanted to be sure to mention that the exploit has been closed, as of today's update. Thanks to everyone for your patience as we resolved that issue.

Thank You.

Countess

countesscorpula · Jun 29, 2007, 09:56 PM // 21:56

well, someone said it was full on luxon side and empty on Kurz... Now it's full on Kurz and empty(ish) on lux. It's been patched up, let's give this baby a ride, ok? Everyone, this is the perfect weekend to flex you JQ muscels.

countesscorpula · Jun 29, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

OK, Running around the capitals, advertising JQ like a town crier doesn't seem to be working....

How about this:

If you want to give Jade Quarry a try, come out for a match (or two or five) at 5:00pm Pacific time Today (29th). That's 8:00pm Eastern, and 12:00am on the 30the for those in GMT.

I'm posting at 3:25pm Pacific, so that gives folks about 90 minutes to get into gear.

Come on out and show us you JQ mad skillz.

Edit: Remember, it's double rewards weekend, so there's that much more incentive to come out. The winning team gets 950 faction (better than the 800 of Fort Aspenwood) + points for kills of the opposition. So come on out and show your colours.

Edit part 2: If anyone here wants to post this invite on other forums, please do so.